Updated
Phylogenetic Tree CTS4528
Thank you Dick Struve for updating the phylogenetic
tree—fascinating stuff. I noted that you still have me in Ireland as my MRCA,
as it should be. I will be updating that at the various sites to Wales, since I
have recently learned where we fit on the Gwaithfoed Tree. What was unknown
until recently is whether we descended from Mathew ap Ieuan through Daffyd ap
Mathew or Robert ap Mathew. I have resolved that now to my utmost satisfaction.
Clearly, both would have the same DNA, assuming there was no Non-Paternal Event
[NPE] mix-up; however, I had to make that connection to complete the circle, so
to speak. I should say at this point, this is the result of family research
since 1986, having collaborated with the family elders who have been at this
far longer.
It goes without saying that my
research has been augmented by DNA testing. I plan to do the Big Y when it fits
in my budget. The missing link was our immigrant, James Matthews Sr., as we
refer to him, in 1718, from N Ireland to the port of Boston on the Ship
Elizabeth. What was not known however was his parentage until now. Without
going into the plethora of detail of how that was finally determined, putting
together 2+2=4, his father was Robert Mathew II of Ballynure. His Father in Law
to be was John McGill, father of Mary, one mile away in Ballyeaston. James’
immigrant forbear from Wales was William ap Robert Mathew m. Elizabeth
Macdonald. That immigration occurred about 1607. William preceded James by 5 generations,
his 3rd G-Grandfather and my 10th G-Grandfather. Five
generations preceding William is Robert ap Mathew, son of Mathew ap Ieuan and
brother of Sir Daffyd ap Mathew.
Mathew ap Ieuan was the beginning of
the surname Mathew. He was also Sir Knight, 8th Lord of Grosmont and
a Lords Marcher. It is also known that he was a collaborator with Owain Glyndwr
in the Marcher Rebellion. He and his spouse, Catherine f Jenkin Fleming, were
charged with Treason but later pardoned by Henry IV, 1 September 1407. engaged
in litigation with the Bishop of Llandaff and was at feud with the Turbervilles
and the younger branch of the Flemings. These disputes were arising from his
claim through marriage to the Lordship of Llandaff and the Senechalship and Temporalitites
of that See, as well to the manors of Candleston, Corntown, St. George and
Merthyr Mawr, and half the manors of Penllyne and Wenvoe. He was buried in
Llandaff Cathedral in 1424. He is 12th from “Gwaithfoed”.
As I have noted previously, here on
our Haplogroup FB Site and otherwise, I was engaged to update the various
generally accepted genealogies [Bartrum & Clark] of the descendants of
“Gwaithfoed” by J. Barry Davies. My part of the undertaking was to splice the
Old Country Mathew Family with the New World Mathew Family. Following that, I
did my own research into “Gwaithfoed” which was later reduced to writing in a
self-published book. Again, I won’t go into all the details since much is
included at my FB Site and book: https://www.facebook.com/Gwaithfoed/ and the
book itself.
The fact that this fabled Lord
“Gwaithfoed” is a pseudonym is one of a few characteristics of the Tribes of
South Wales that MUST be known; the first being that many of these Lords went
solely by their pseudonym or moniker. That is but one characteristics that you
would not know if your knowledge of South Wales was from Angle, Saxon or
Frankish chroniclers, who would not know a pseudonym from a salamander,
especially the Welsh use of pseudonyms and why that was done.
It is also true that these foreign
chroniclers would either not know, or would not admit that the original
inhabitants of S. Wales were some very well-known tribes from the East. It was
quite well known by Edward [III], by the grace of God King of England, Lord of
Ireland and Duke of Aquitaine, that the father of Mathew ap Ieuan, Ieuan ap
Gruffudd Gethyn, was the Lord of the Talvan aka Tal y Van Tribe. It was also
known where the historical homeland of this tribe was located. This was
chronicled in the File of Twelve [Tribes] Acquittances on parchment, by
"Robert de Prestebury, the lieutenant of Sir John Giffard de Brymesfeld,
Custodian of the lands which were of Gilbert de Clare, formerly Earl of
Gloucester and Hertford, in Glammorgan and Morgannou." Witness Myself at
Westminster, the 19th day of June in the ninth year of Our reign [1331]. By the
King Himself." [King Edward [III]
[Fragment of yellow seal.] Acquittances.
Another characteristic of these Welsh
is that it was REQUIRED, especially by the Lords and “landed” to know your 9
preceding generations. Thus, Ieuan ap Gruffudd Gethyn would know his 9th
predecessor was Morgan Mawr, grandfather of the “Gwaithfoed”. This particular
“Gwaithfoed” was in fact, Lord Ythael Ddu ap Owain. He was also known as Einydd,
depending upon which chronicler was setting this out to writing. Ithel or Ythel, son of Owain, was a valorous
prince and had a palace at Ystradywain and another summer house called Ton
Ithel ddu. He was called Ithel Ddu from his black Hair, &; beard. He was
also known as Lord of Caerdigan and Gwynfai. He too would have known his 9th
predecessor, Arthmael [II] ap Meurig; and so on and so on it goes… His brother
was also likely his Blegywryd, Hywell ap Owain. Later, that fell to Aeddan ap “Gwaithfoed”.
By now the foreign chroniclers would
be so confused as to be rendered daffy. Firstly, they thought Gwaithfoed was a
name, not a pseudonym/ title. The same is true with respect to the “Blegywryd”.
There was a Blegywryd to each Lord in every generation. The same with respect
to “Iorwerth”; it is a title, not a name. The same is true of “Cynferth”, a
title, not a surname. The most important of these was the Blegywryd. He was the
one who was responsible for the laws/ history of the Cymru. These laws were
never reduced to writing—they were mnemonic and mnemonic ONLY. That is why the
“Laws of Hywel” are a joke. Hywel is of the purported 15 tribes of N Wales. Either
he was hoodwinked by a Blegywryd or he made them up. These were NOT the Laws
kept by the Blegywryd even back to the Tal y Van homeland and even before that.
This is another characteristic of the Cymru or Khumry that was lost on the
foreign chroniclers.
One characteristic of these Lords is
the one that served to confuse them more than any other. They were looking at
as many 6 lineages of this particular Lord that were attributed to him and
saying that he was either multiple persons or some other contrived explanation
that he could not be who he was said to be. It is actually a fairly simple
explanation. There were two lineages ascribed to Ythael Ddu—maternal and
paternal. His spouse would also have both a maternal and paternal lineage/
tribal symbol. Since, we’ll call him Gwaithfoed for purposes of brevity, he had
two “wives”, his descendants would have Gwaithfoed’s and whichever mother they
had as a lineage, thus four different tribal symbols on their shield or Coat of
Arms; and so on and so on…
The
most important characteristic of the Welsh is the practice of gavelkind vs.
primogeniture by the Angles, Saxons and otherwise. It was of paramount
importance to the Welsh to “keep it in the family”, to protect the bloodline.
This sometimes resulted in keeping it maybe, a little too close. During the
time of the Gwaithfoed, this practice drew a great deal of consternation and criticism from Roman clerics. That
drew only snickers and lampooning from the Welsh chieftains. This surfaced
especially with the birth of Iestyn ap Gwrgan[t], whereby the clerics disavowed
his lineage and did a rewrite of his parentage, further confusing these
genealogies. That has been written about at length by some of the Welsh
chroniclers, who disavowed the role of Rome in Wales. When in Wales…
In short, these foreign chroniclers
never found out who this guy was nor could they if they lived 9 lives each.
There were, however real Welsh chroniclers who did know who he was and if you
just follow their tract, you can indeed learn who he was. Again, I cannot put
it all down here but it is documented in my book. As I have stated previously,
the Tal y Van Tribe came to S Wales from the shores of the Lake of the Van in E
Anatolia. So, if all of this is accurate, as I believe it to be, my SNP should
be prevalent in what is now Turkey, as well as S Wales, Ireland as well the
USofA. Make of it what you will. It is fairly well know the trek taken by these
Tribes to get to S Wales, as well as some of their other jumping off points en
route to their final destination but you won’t get that from the foreign
chroniclers. They are convinced that the center of the universe is Greco-Roman
and that all devolved from there…Bless their hearts.
Here are some other titles the nitwits
have chronicled as names of persons, FYI:
Titles
& Pseudonyms
Beli
Mawr is
not a name, but a title or pseudonym = Beli = tumult and Mawr means great.
When
these nitwits refer to Beli Mawr, they are referring to King Dingad,
son of Annyne Grych.
Caswallon
is not a
name but a title = Viceroy
When
these nitwits mistakenly refer to Caswallon, they are likely referring
to Aeneas“the Rugged”, son of King Dingad.
He was a Caswallon by title.
Cynfelyn
is not a
name = yellow hair
When
these nitwits refer to Cynfelyn, they are likely referring to Prince
Greidiol. This is also a pseudonym in that it means to scorch or burn.
Cuneda
is not a
name: Cun = lord and edau = restoration or, Lord of the Restoration.
Gwrtheyrn
is not a
name = monarch of men. “Gwrtheyrn”
is known
to the English as Vortigern.
In
Essyllwg [Gwent], the King was also the military commander and titled as—Dragon
or Uthyr-pen-dragon =
wonderful head of dragons or dragoons
When
the military commander was another experienced or capable Prince—Wledig
= Legate
The
Senior King = Teyrn = Monarch
Regional
Kings = Brenin
Cuneda
Wledig =
Cun = Lord of the Restoration = Edau, Wledig = Legate; his name being, Eternalis
Vedomavus.
Ail-teyrn
= Regent
Cadfan
=
Prominent in Battle
Caswallon
= Ruler
of a Separated State, aka Viceroy in Lloegres [England]
Gwaednerth
= Mighty
in Blood
Cadwallader
= Battle
Sovereign
Dydd
[as in
Caer dydd] = agreement
Gwaithfoed
or Gwaithfeydd
= job or work [one who performs good works]. This may have to do with weaponry,
sword in particular--in the proper vernacular; and/ or a builder of
forts/castles, and/ or the practice of common law, and/ or prominent in battle,
and/ or all or some of the above. This Gwaithfoed was often referred to as the Brenin [See above]
In
addition, we have the Iorwerth, also
supposedly a person. This is a name/pseudonym we see often in Wales, but what
if we could break it down? I + or = the Lord. Werth = worth or value. Could it
then mean, worthy of the Lord? After all, these laws are often referred to as “God’s
Laws”.
Cyfnerth, supposedly referenced a
person, but as we shall see, another title; all one word in this case = to make
firm, steady, support; to strengthen, to make compact, to corroborate, and to confirm—Editor.
Blegywryd
was
doctor of civil and canon law.
Considering the above, is it any
wonder that S Wales genealogies are such a botched mishmash of fables and tall
tales?
S Wales Tribes:
Maghya
Kybour
Bagh
Seinghenyth supra-kaach
Glen
Rotheny
Meskyn
Tal
y Van
Ruthyn
aka Ruthin
Glinnogor
Tyerarlth
aka Tyrearlth
Neeth
Avan
or Avon
Boviarton
Llanblethian
Kenfigge
Egliskeynor
This
is land long-held by the old Welsh Tribes.
"Lordshippes Merchers" land.
See below: Cardiff Records, Vol.
3 Margam Abbey Muniments. No. 1096. in printed catalogue. Matters sufficiente
to be alledged for the disprovinge of the castle and towne of Cardief, and the
lordships of Myskyn, Glynrothney, Sengunithe, Boviarton, Llanblethian, Rythin,
Talvan, Kenfigge, Tyreyarlthe, Avon and Nethe, or any of them to be Lordshippes
merchers.
NOTE
the different spellings above.
Notes
on Ieuan ap Gruffyd Gethyn, father of Mathew ap Ieuan:
Educated
in the household of Enguerrand de Courcy, Earl of Bedford and at Oriel College,
Oxford and followed the Earl of Bedford to lower Germany, fought at Buttisholz,
was one of the executors of the Countess of Bedford, 1379, inherited Grosmont
[which seems to have been restored to his father by John of Gaunt]. He was given the royal badge of the White
Hart, 1396, and summoned to join Richard II at Carmarthen, 1399. "The Genealogical
Magazine", reports that the Matthews lineage from Gwaithfoed through Sir
David ap Mathew, Knight is recorded and approved as a manuscript in the British
Records Office." Sir Knight Ieuan
ap Griffith Gethyn: Sir Knight Ieuan took over his grandfather’s Knights of St.
John's known as Ieuan's Hospice. Was 7th Lord of Grosmont, M.A. Oriel College,
Oxford. NOTE: Mathew of Llandaff, Radir, C. [Cardiff?].
This very ancient and long continuing family derived from Gwilyn [?], son of
Gwaethfoed, Lord of Cardigan by Morfydd, dau. of Ynyr, King of Gwent, through
Gruffydd Gethin, ranked as tenth from Gwaethfoed, Ivan [Ieuan] ap Gruffyd
Gethin, who married Cecil, daug. and heiress of Watkin Llewelyn of Llandaff, of
the lineage of Iestyn ap Gwrgan[t].
He settled at Llandaff, his son, Mathew ap Ieuan ap Gruffydd [Gethyn], and his
Grandson, David Mathew, introduced the surname which never ceased for twelve
generations. They intermarried with the Flemings of Flemingston, Morgans of
Tredegar, Gamages of Coity, Stradlings of St. Donats, and branched off at early
periods into the vigorous families of Mathew of Castell Menych (Monk's Castle)
and Mathew of Radir, Mathew of Aberaman and Mathew of Sweldon and Llancalach,
all of whom are now extinct. The house
of Llandaff supplied Sheriffs for Glamorgan in the years 1546, 1746 and member
of Parliament in the person of Thomas Mathew, father and son in 1744, 1756.
This same Thomas Mathew, Sen., of Llandaff, was Rear Admiral and Admiral of the
White; and Thomas the son was a Major in the Army. In his election he polled
954 votes against 212 given for his opponent, Charles Van, Esq., by his wife,
Anne, daughter of Robert Knight, Esq., of Sutturn, he had, besides several
other children, a son, also named Thomas Mathew, Esq., of Llandaff. The Sheriff
of 1769 who died 1771, s.p. the Mathews of Llandaff bore the arms of
Gwaethfoed-or, a Lion rampany regardant sa. crowned GU). GRIFFYTH Ieuan ap 148 1331 "For the
tribe-land of Talvan" Francis Jones lists this Ieuan, together with
several other generations, to be Knights of the Holy Sepulchre on the strength
of the printed pedigree of Arnold Harris Mathew, de jure Earl of Llandaff, but
emphasizes that this is not found in any other source. The de jure Earl also marries him to 'Cecily
f Sir Robert de Clare the de Clare of Scott's Marmion', which is entirely
fanciful. See Updating of Clark, p. 8.
Steve Matthews Note: I will note here
that, in my humble opinion, the "Earl" du jure has a lucrative
imagination. File of twelve Acquittances
on parchment, by "Robert de Prestebury, the lieutenant of Sir John Giffard
de Brymesfeld, Custodian of the lands which were of Gilbert de Clare, formerly
Earl of Gloucester and Hertford, in Glammorgan and Morgannou." Preceded by
the Writ as follows: "Edward, by the grace of God King of England, Lord of
Ireland and Duke of Aquitaine, unto his beloved and faithful John Giffard de
Brymmesffeld, Custodian of the lands and tenements of Glanmorgan and Morgannou
being in Our hands, Greeting. Whereas We have commanded the Collectors and
Receivors of those sums of money which, by divers men in the parts aforesaid
who with Lewelin Bren arose against Us in war and who afterwards came into Our
peace and (good) will and were redeemed towards Us, ought to be levied to Our
use, in Our name deputed, that they should deliver unto you, by indenture
between you and them thereof to be made, all moneys of fines and such like
redemptions in the lands aforesaid, which they have hitherto received and
henceforth shall happen to collect and receive: We straitly command you that
you receive from them, by indenture between you and them thereof to be made,
all sums of money which the new Receivors will deliver unto you in this behalf,
and that you safeguard them until you shall have other commands from Us
concerning the same. Witness Myself at Westminster, the 19th day of June in the
ninth year of Our reign. By the King Himself." [King Edward III] [Fragment of yellow seal.] Acquittances. I.
By Griffith ap Madoc [Father of Ieuan ap Gruffyd]. (Faint throughout.) II.
"This Indenture witnesseth that Robert de Prestebury, the lieutenant of
Sir John Giffard de Brimmesfeld, Custodian of Glamorgan and Morgannuck, hath
received of Ririd Wych and his associates, Collectors of the fines of the
tribe-land of Maghya, of the moiety of the fines and redemptions of
divers men of the tribe-land of Maghya
aforesaid, made before Sir William de Montague and his associates, Justices, in
the ninth year of the reign of King Edward, son of King Edward, 195l. 13s. 4d.,
by occasion of the war waged by Lewelin Bren and his accomplices in the said
parts of Glamorgan and Morgannouk; which said moiety ought to have been paid at
the feast of Saint John Baptist next before the making of these presents, in
the before-noted year. In witness whereof the said Robert and Ririd to this
Indenture have set their alternate seals. Written at Kaerdyf on the
twenty-first day of March in the tenth year of the reign of King Edward."
[King Edward III]. The like, by Griffith Pencragh and his associates,
Collectors, from the receipts of fines and redemptions of the men of the
tribe-land of Kybour, who lately arose in war against our lord the King
with Lewelin Bren. 194l. 2d.. IV. The like, by David ap Eynon, for the
tribe-land of Bagh. 285l. 13s 6d.. V. The like, by Wilym Seys, for the
tribe-land of Seinghenyth supra-kaach. 192l. 4s. 2d.. VI. The like, by
David ap Aron, for the tribe-land of Glenrotheny. 302l. 11s. 8d.. VII.
The like, by Howel Caagh [likely Goch], for the tribe-land of Meskyn.
381 L. 2s. 4d.. VIII. The like, by leuan ap Griffyth, for the tribe-land of Talvan.
164l. 9s. 2d.. IX. The like, by Llythan ap Maddok, for the tribe-land of Ruthyn.
80l. 14s.. X. The like, by Rosser ap Griffeth, for the tribe-land of Glinnogor.
115s. 4d.. XI. The like, by William ap Melyne, for the tribe-land of Tyerarlth,
Egliskeynor and Court Colman. 228l.
5s. 10d.. XII. The like, by . . . . . Ener, for the tribe-land of Neeth.
191 L 7s. 10d.. (Partly illegible). From: 'Ministers' Accounts: 1331', Cardiff
Records: volume 1 (1898), pp. 147-149. URL:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=48084. Date accessed: 08
July 2008. Please Note we are talking
about Tribe-land. This is land long-held
by the old Welsh Tribes.
"Lordshippes Merchers" land.
See below: Cardiff Records, Vol.
3 Margam Abbey Muniments. No. 1096. in printed catalogue. Matters sufficiente
to be alledged for the disprovinge of the castle and towne of Cardief, and the
lordships of Myskyn, Glynrothney, Sengunithe, Boviarton, Llanblethian, Rythin,
Talvan, Kenfigge, Tyreyarlthe, Avon and Nethe, or any of them to be Lordshippes
merchers, And to prove them before the Purchasses therof made by the earle of
Penbroke to be members only of the lordshipe mercher of Glamorgan and
Morgannocke and inferior lordshipes to the same, And under the jurisdiction of
that courte. Markes whereby a lordship
mercher is perfectly knowen. From: 'Margam Abbey muniments: Select documents to
1568', Cardiff Records: volume 3 (1901), pp. 270-294. URL:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=48163. Date accessed: 08
July 2008. See extensive discussion of Lords Marchers here:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=48163
Notes
on Gruffyd Gethyn ap Madog:
Summoned
as one of the Barons of Glamorgan, 1368.
Was at feud in 1363 with the de Avene about his mother's dowry, at
Kenfig. Sir Griffith Gethyn, ranked as tenth from Gwaethfoed, born abt. 1325 in
Coity, Glamorgan, was knighted by King Henry II, while in Ireland. Was also
Knight of the Holy Sepulchor (not substantiated), married (1) (Joan) or Crisly
ferch Rhum, born 1329 in Castell Kibwr, Glamorgan, daughter of Rhun ap Griffith
Ychan ap Grono of the line of Bleddwn ap Cynfyn and (2) Margaret ferch Bryn ap
George. Sir Griffith Gethyn and Crisly had at least three sons. Knighted by
Henry II in the wars in Ireland. 6th
Lord of Grosmont. See Updating of Clark & Bartrum.
Some examples:
Maghya aka Magyar
According
to András Róna-Tas the locality in which the Hungarians, the Manicha-Er group,
emerged was between the Volga River and the Ural
Mountains. Between the 8th and 5th centuries BC, the Magyars
embarked upon their independent existence and the early period of the proto-Hungarian language began
Around
830 AD, the seven related tribes (Jenő, Kér, Keszi, Kürt-Gyarmat, Megyer, Nyék and Tarján) formed a
confederation in Etelköz, called "Hétmagyar" ("Seven
Magyars"). Their leaders, the Seven chieftains of the Magyars,
besides Álmos, included Előd,
Ond, Kond, Tas, Huba and Töhötöm, who took a blood oath, swearing eternal loyalty to
Álmos. Presumably, the Magyar tribes consisted of 108 clans.
See
also:
Southern districts of Bihar, eastern Patna District, northern Chotanagpur
Division; West Bengal, Malda District. Alternate names: MAGADHI, MAGAYA,
MAGHAYA, MAGHORI, MAGI, MAGODHI, BIHARI. Dialects: SOUTHERN MAGAHI, NORTHERN
MAGAHI, CENTRAL MAGAHI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian,
Indo-Aryan, Eastern zone, Bihari. More information.
NOTE: MAGI
Kybour or Kabars
The
Kabars consisted of three Khazar tribes who rebelled against the Khazar
Khaganate sometime in the ninth century; the rebellion was
notable enough to be described in Constantine Porphyrogenitus's work De Administrando Imperio. Subsequently
the Kabars were expelled from the Khazar Khaganate and sought refuge by joining
the Magyar tribal
confederacy called Hét-Magyar (meaning "seven
Hungarians"). The three Kabar tribes accompanied the Magyar invasion of Pannonia and the
subsequent formation of the Principality of Hungary in the late
9th century.
This
is Cibwyr in Welsh. See also Gerberi. See also Gomer, Kybor, Khumri, City of
Gomara [As written about by Ptolemy], Ghumry or Ghumri, Gimir.
Bagh (Persian: باغ,
meaning "garden") may refer to:
·
Bagh,
alternate name of Bagh Chamak, a village in Kerman Province, Iran
·
Bagh (garden),
a special type of garden common to near, middle and south eastern Asian
countries
Bagh
City (Urdu: باغ ) is the chief town and
district headquarters of the Bagh District,
in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan.
The town is situated on the confluence of two small nullahs,
Malwani & Mall. Some
of the most remarkable ancient artwork of Madhya Pradesh is found in caves. The
Bagh caves, near the western town of Mhow, are adorned with paintings on
Buddhist topics that date roughly to the 5th century ce. Stemming from about
the same period (4th to 7th century) are the Udayagiri caves (Brahmanical and
Jaina monasteries), near Vidisha, which exhibit artwork and rock-cut
architecture...
Meskin
aka Mishkyn from Muski may refer to:
·
Meskin,
ethnic Jewish surname
Mushki
Armenia,
then called Biaini by the natives, has a history going back to about 6,000
BC. Armenians are thought to be a blend
of four tribes: Hurrian, Urartu (from
Ararat), Luvians and Mushki. Luvian is
aka Luwian and Luiya. Mushki is aka
Merkezi, Moschi, etc. This area is often
referred to as Eastern Anatolia historically.
Armenia,
then called Biaini by the natives, has a history going back to about 6,000 BC.
Armenians are thought to be a blend of four tribes: Hurrian, Urartu (from
Ararat), Luvians and Mushki. Luvian is aka Luwian and Luiya. Mushki is aka
Merkezi, Moschi, etc. This area is often referred to as Eastern Anatolia
historically.
The
Mushki (Muški) were an Iron Age people of Anatolia, known from Assyrian sources.
They do not appear in Hittite records. Several authors have connected them with
the Moschoi (Μόσχοι) of Greek sources and the Georgian tribe of the Meskhi.
Josephus Flavius identified the Moschoi with the Biblical Meshech. Two
different groups are called Muški in the Assyrian sources (Diakonoff 1984:115),
one from the 12th to 9th centuries, located near the confluence of the Arsanias
and the Euphrates ("Eastern Mushki"), and the other in the 8th to 7th
centuries, located in Cilicia ("Western Mushki"). Assyrian sources
identify the Western Mushki with the Phrygians, while Greek sources clearly
distinguish between Phrygians and Moschoi.
Identification
of the Eastern with the Western Mushki is uncertain, but it is of course
possible to assume a migration of at least part of the Eastern Mushki to
Cilicia in the course of the 10th to 8th centuries, and this possibility has
been repeatedly suggested, variously identifying the Mushki as speakers of a
Georgian, Armenian or Anatolian idiom.
Moschia
is a mountainous region of Armenia between Iberia, Armenia, and Colchis. The
Moschian Mountains were the connecting chain between the Caucasus and Anti
Taurus Mountains. The people of that area were known as the Moschi aka above.
Talvan, Talyvan, Tal y Van
Tribe
The
Mathew family [Wales] was mentioned in the King’s [England] writings as being
of the ancient Talyvan Tribe [Ieuan ap Gruffudd Gethyn]. Iestyn ap Gwrgan too was specifically
mentioned as from this tribe. Iestyn is,
in fact, be in direct descent of this line.
Ieuan ap Mathew married a descendant of Iestyn—what would be a distant
relative. This tribe is written in many ways:
Tal y Van, Talavan, Tal a van, Tal avon or avan, etc. There is an Avon River in Wales, most likely
named by/for this tribe, as well as the Avan or Avon Tribe.
Annals & Antiquities of
the Counties and County Families of Wales,
Thomas Nicholas, p. 575:
When we speak of a family which has descended through
many generations being of a particular race or nationality, the statement must
be taken as subject to qualification.
Above (in the book itself), families have been described as Norman,
although in some cases the very origin was doubtful, and in almost all, through
the intermarriages of many successions, the prevailing blood had become that of
the native race. And now that we speak
of families of British descent, it is
not to be forgotten that in many cases the Celtic blood, at first somewhat
pure, had through frequent union with English and Anglo-Norman become
considerably mixed. Thus the Mathew of Llandaff intermarry with the
Gamage and Stradling houses; the Cradocks with the Mansels and Walshes,
&c. But the well-known physiological
law of the prevalence of the stronger or less intermittent race would secure in
the British families a nearer adherence to the original type than would occur
with the Anglo-Norman houses, excepting those originally of the Celtic race.
But in most cases a fact of interest is suggested
respecting the ethnological character of the Glamorgan population, especially
the better class families, viz., that they are of mixed derivation in an
unusual degree. This fact, obvious from
the simple records of alliances, is testified by the frequent occurrence of
that Scandinavian light complexion which gave Rufus the name of “red”, and which prevails in the Scottish
highlands and islands settled upon by the Danes. That this colour is not more abundant in
Glamorgan is owing to the neutralizing power of the Silurian and Celtic [a term that is a misnomer] swarthiness, which,
if foreign intrusion through modern immigration did not favour its rival, would
in course of time regain the hold it had in the age of Tacitus (Vit. Agric.,
xi.) and raise anew in some minds the conjecture that the people of Gwent and
Glamorgan were of Iberian origin, relations of the Spanish race. Were we Silures? I think Thomas Nicholas thought it so.
Lake
of the Van (formerly Nairi Sea)
[This was the tribe of my ancestors. Ieuan ap Gruffudd Gethyn was my 15th
G-Grandfather. He was the son of Gruffudd Gethyn ap Madog. Madog aka Madawg aka
Madoc, etc. was the Old Welsh appellation for Mathew, the original modern
spelling. His son, Mathew ap Ieuan, was the first to use the modern spelling,
Mathew. Sir Knight Mathew, 10th Lord of Grosmont, 1380-1419, was buried in
Llandaff Cathedral in 1424. It was his two sons, Robert and Daffyd, that
eventually "removed to" Ireland to help establish the
"Plantations" c. 1607. Some of the descendants of Daffyd were
consigned to establish the Jamestown Plantations. The descendants of both
Daffyd and Robert left for the USA in 1718/ 19. Other descendants of Robert
were some of the original settlers in Australia]. I have 67 Marker Matches from
both lines, the latest from Co. Cork. I know the branch that went to Cork—the
line from Daffydd. I have matches from Robert’s line in Australia, Antrim, etc.
This is no longer a mystery, it is now known.
Glen Rotheny aka Glyn Rothney
Roth
is a District in present day Bavaria
From
the Tribe of Ruth--Ruthin?
Roth
is a district in Mittelfranken, Bavaria, Germany. It is bounded by the
districts of Nürnberger Land, Neumarkt, Eichstätt, Weißenburg-Gunzenhausen,
Ansbach and Fürth, and the cities of Schwabach and Nürnberg.
Capital:
Roth, Bavaria
Population: 123,431 (2013)
Administrative region: Middle Franconia
Glyn N’ogor or Glynn Ogor
Ogor
is a town in Russia. Ogor and Uighur are one in the same, known later as
Avares. They were also known as Ougouri.
Tyer Arlth aka Tyre y Arlthe
or Arleth
Tyari?
Tyre? Arleth is “free man” in German—associated
with Tyre in Lebanon.
Eglis Keynor or Kynor or
Kynar or Cynar
Gedor?
A place name in the East Bank
Senghe Nythe, supra-kaach,
aka Sengu Nithe aka Seinghenyth
See
Neeth or Netha or Neath.
Neth
er land?
Kenfigge aka Kenfig aka Cynffig
Cyn
= Before [Welsh]
Ffig
= Fig [Welsh]
Original
tribal lands yet unknown.
Avon aka Avan
Van District in present Turkey
Lake of the Van (formerly Nairi Sea)
Boviar[ton]
Later Boverton, a castle and town in S Wales
Bavaria?
Llan Blethian aka Blethyn
This notable Welsh surname is a patronymic form of the medieval male given name
"Ble(i)ddyn", originally a byname meaning "wolf cub", from
"blaidd", wolf, plus the diminutive suffix "yn". Heroes of
medieval Wales were often referred to as "Blaidd", although the term
was also something used to describe a cruel man, or one who pretended friendship
while remaining an enemy.
Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Blethyn#ixzz2wEhtoswV
Llan
or Lan is a common place name element in Brythonic languages such as Welsh,
Cornish, Breton, Cumbric, and possibly Pictish. In Wales there are over 630
place names beginning with 'Llan', pronounced [ɬan]. In Cornwall and Brittany the element
is usually spelled 'Lan' or 'Lann', occasionally 'Laun'. The original meaning
of llan in Welsh is "an enclosed piece of land", but it later evolved
to mean the parish surrounding a church. Most places beginning with Llan have
some connection to a saint, usually of the Celtic church.
[Llans
were called Glebes in England and the Colonial USA]
The
above speak to both origins and “dispersement” or diaspora. Make of it what you
will. I hesitate to wonder—are the Taliban my cousins? I may have a photo taken
with a turban and we can all decide LOL
